LAY DOMINICANS Central Province USA

As we prepare for Christmas, finish running around getting those last minute gifts for under the tree and read stories in the news papers about those needy families just wanting to provide their children with toy’s for Christmas, it is a good time to reflect on the real Nativity.

Jesus was born in a stable, a real stable, not the bright, airy portico which Christian painters have created for the Son of David, as if ashamed that their God should have laid down in poverty and dirt. And not the modern Christmas-eve “Holy Stable,” either, made of plaster of paris, with little candy-like statuettes, the Holy Stable, clean and prettily painted, with a neat, tidy manger, and ecstatic Ass, a contrite Ox, and Angels fluttering their wreaths on the roof--this is not the stable where Jesus was born.

The poor, old stable of Christ’s old, poor country is only four rough walls, a dirty pavement, a foof of beams and slate. It is dark and reeking. The filthiest place in the world was the first room the only Pure Man ever born of woman.

It was not by chance that Christ was born here. What is the world but an immense stable where men produce filth and wallow in it? Upon this earthy pigsty, where do decorations or perfumes can hide the odor of filth, Jesus appeared one night, born of a stainless Virgin armed only with innocence.

(From the Life of Christ by Giovanni Papini), a wonderful read.

     Thanks for the thought, but it's somewhat confusing and seems ultimately degrading.  He starts off with indisputable fact:  Jesus was born in common surroundings.  But he then moves to a very disputable conclusion. 

     The earth is God's gift to us.  This person seems to forget that Jesus' birth reminds us that these surrounding are noble not degraded.  This, to me, is a great lesson both at the beginning of His life and at the end when He takes what some might consider a most "degraded" person with Him into Paradise. 

     I realize he's off into flights of hyperbole, but he's the one who's criticizing pictorial artists and sculptors for the same exaggeration to make their point.  This man seems obsessively frightened of the physical reality.  (By the way, filthy is a state of perception not objectivity.)  I would think there are better people to read for the life of Christ.  They're called Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

I do agree wholeheartedly with you, Joe.  When God created the world, He saw that it was "good" and then He created man "in His own image."  True, we have not always kept that image as it should be but in my experience most of the people I encounter are basically good people.  As Jesus said to the woman, "Then neither will I condemn thee."  Before I condemn all mankind as creating a pigsty, I will endeavor ro remove the beam from my own eye.

"For God so loved the world that he gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him may not perish but have eternal life.  Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through Him." (John 3:16-17)  So how can we condemn the world?  Let's make it into the Kingdom.

Dominic was a cheerful man who usually had a smile on his face.  He loved the sinners so much that he founded an Order to preach the Truth to them.  Giovanni Papini (a Fascist and an antisemite) probably meant well but the quote mirrors the Albigensian movement Dominic fought and preached against.  They believed the world was an evil place created by an evil spirit along with the men and women populating it.  This is a very undominican idea.

Also, in my opinion viewpoints expressed on this page should be the thoughts of the poster.  We want to hear your ideas not extended quotations from another.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it:D

Terry McSweeney at 03:29PM on Dec 22, 2009

I do agree wholeheartedly with you, Joe.  When God created the world, He saw that it was "good" and then He created man "in His own image."  True, we have not always kept that image as it should be but in my experience most of the people I encounter are basically good people.  As Jesus said to the woman, "Then neither will I condemn thee."  Before I condemn all mankind as creating a pigsty, I will endeavor ro remove the beam from my own eye.

"For God so loved the world that he gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him may not perish but have eternal life.  Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through Him." (John 3:16-17)  So how can we condemn the world?  Let's make it into the Kingdom.

Dominic was a cheerful man who usually had a smile on his face.  He loved the sinners so much that he founded an Order to preach the Truth to them.  Giovanni Papini (a Fascist and an antisemite) probably meant well but the quote mirrors the Albigensian movement Dominic fought and preached against.  They believed the world was an evil place created by an evil spirit along with the men and women populating it.  This is a very undominican idea.

Also, in my opinion viewpoints expressed on this page should be the thoughts of the poster.  We want to hear your ideas not extended quotations from another.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it:D

I did not agree that Papini's view of the Nativity is degrading, I  know not his political views, really do not care what they are.  I for one do believe there is a better place that awaits the faithful. Could not agree more that the earth was God's gift to us.  But have be been good stewards? I believe that will continue to be debatable.  It was not Papini who reminded us that we are in this world but not of this world.  God did create the world and then He created man "in His own image."  But then Adam came along and now we all fall short of the Glory of God.

ps:  I for one believe that "extended quotations from another," can stimulate discussion, and therefore serves a valuable purpose.

Peace